Depends on the experience of the belayer, weight differential, and timing of jump. The left looks harder due to drag across and up. The right goes straight up.
1 year ago | 4
Left is substantially harder due to the increased friction caused by the distance from the first draw, belaying in this position is also ill advised as it increases rope drag
1 year ago | 16
I don't know. I would love to see a video experimenting with this. Particular points of interest would be: 1. what, if any, impact the relative weights of the climbers/belayers have on the equation, 2. how the amount of friction in the system impacts the results, and 3. how the belayer's technique impacts the results. My intuition is "Whichever one results in the belayer traveling less is harder." Left has the possibility of the belayer traveling further. Thus if I had to pick, I'd guess that right is harder.
1 year ago | 3
I would say the right one, it is harder to lift someone up, than to drag them to the side. There is also more distance to travel which will apply a lower force over more time/distance until a full stop
1 year ago (edited) | 11
Right. Belayers weight can exert much more force on the rope if they're closer to the wall. Also: bit less rope in the system there.
1 year ago (edited) | 11
Left side would result in a harder catch under most circumstances. Belaying within one or two steps in the wall allows for more dynamic belaying and softer catches. The mix between stepping into or away from the wall while taking is far more versatile than either one on their own.
1 year ago | 7
Dunno, I'm not supposed to fall, I've usually got a chainsaw in hand...
1 year ago | 26
Right. The left will have higher friction but it takes less force to pull the belayer forward than it does to pick them up (because gravity is pulling the belayer down).
1 year ago | 1
The left scenario should create a softer catch. It requires more force to pull the belayer straight up than it does to drag the belayer horizontally into the wall. Although, the increased angle at the first clip could cause more friction between the belayer and the climber. So if the belayer who's far from the wall is well braced then it might be a way harder catch.
1 year ago | 7
I would say that the left one has a harder catch. Despite having more slack in the system, a belayer far from the first quickdraw is definitely less dynamic and more "stable" (in a bad way) than a belayer right below the first quickdraw, who can jump and ensure a softer catch. Even if not belaying dynamically, I think that would be easier for the belayer to be dragged up from the fall, thus providing a somewhat softer catch.
1 year ago | 9
It will be the one to the right, as there will only be vertical forces applied to what is essentially a rope pulley system, vs vertical and horizontal forces. Even if the person on the left jumps, because they are away from the bolt line, their upward momentum won’t be nearly as effective in reducing the load force on the top bolt as the weight of the climber loads it, as they are not also moving any closer to the bolt vs standing underneath it and jumping up into the rope pulley system as the climber’s weight starts to load the top bolt. Time and again I try to explain this to people, that standing underneath the bolt line will not only give a softer catch to the climber, but will pull the belayer straight up towards the bolt and not in towards the wall, resulting in a catch that’s softer and safer for the climber (less rope for the climber to fall through) and safer for the belayer, since they won’t be pulled into the wall, only up towards the first bolt.
1 year ago | 1
Left, the tighter angle on the 1st draw adds more rope friction. Rope drag increases the fall factor. Theoretically infinite rope drag at the 1st draw in the system provides no give for the climber because the infinite force is a static anchor.
1 year ago | 0
Right, force exerted by belayer is from momentum plus gravity. On the left it is mostly only momentum with little from gravity as the belayer travels mostly horizontal.
1 year ago | 1
Left side. The extra rope is negated by the horizontal drag of belayer and more friction provided in the bottom quickdraw. The right side is a straighter pull meaning less friction and the belayer (pending weight) will be lifted further softening the shockload
1 year ago | 0
The two forces that will influence the softness of the catch are: 1. The friction This one is higher in the first scenario, because the angle of the rope is tighter. 2. Gravitational force This is constant in both cases. As the drawing suggests, the belayer on the right reaches a higher end-point than the one on the left, meaning a higher potential energy. As far as my highschool physics goes, my guess is that this "stolen" energy (stolen kinetic energy from the climber) will result in a lower kinetic energy for the climber, and thus a softer catch. This is just a guess tho, really interested in what a physicist would have to say about this. Assuming that the only force that's different between the two is the friction, the second seems better. On another note, the first could result in injury to the belayer in case of a heavier climber, as the belayer is slammed into the wall.
1 year ago | 1
For the climber, the right case, because they have less rope, and also the angle in which the belayer is, it pulls him up, which makes more difficult to absorbe it with the legs. On the left side, they have more Rope, but the belayer would absorb a lot of the Impact, because he is far from the wall, so he would be thrown to the wall which might result in a bigger Impact for the belayer, and thus less Impact for the climber.
1 year ago | 7
Ez. Definitely the right one has a harder catch. Simply put, if you are closer, you can pull harder. It's like you weigh less if you're further away.
1 year ago | 1
Left. That nearly 90° bend the rope takes from the bottom bolt to the belayer will not transmit much force to the belayer.
1 year ago | 0
On assisted belaying devices, without any intervention of the belayer, right case will result in harder catch. Same as on your previous video on assisting climber on pulling towards the anchor, belayer on the left drawing has to act by the friction to the ground, not by his mass acting toward the ground. However, skilled belayer might jump up in the right drawing example and make this catch softer than on the left drawing. The thing is that it requires perfect timing, in other words practice and experience. Left drawing example doesn’t require experience for the softer catch, however it might end up with smashing on the wall and even letting your break hand from the rope in order to brace yourself. Proper jumping with your legs on the wall in the left case scenario requires practice and experience ;)
1 year ago | 0
The right side, less rope in the system and you can only jump so high. The belayer travels a lot more distance on the left which equates into a softer fall for the climber.
1 year ago | 0
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1 year ago | [YT] | 168