@John_Nash_Mantle_Convectionist
Ron, Cup ‘n Core bullets do have their place in the hunt. Depending on the range and cartridge, frontal shots can’t have too much penetration to avoid puncturing the gut and contaminating the chest cavity. The last blacktail I harvested with my 260AI presented a frontal, quartering toward me shot, exposing its full brisket and left side away. I shot it @center mass through the brisket @92 yards. The bullet entrance wound channel stayed small, @<1/2”, but then exploded in the chest cavity, vaporizing both lungs, sparing the heart and only peppering a 6” spot under the right ribs; no penetration of the diaphragm. Perfect shot placement with the hand loaded 143 gn. Hornady ELD-X, but if the bullet were solid copper, bonded or partitioned, it would’ve complicated the field dressing with gut contents. This is why I hunt with both cup ‘n core and controlled expansion.
9 months ago | 12
About 25 years ago I shot a buck at 325 yards with a .30-06 using Federal ammunition loaded with 165 grain NBT ( advertised muzzle velocity of 2900 fps) It did not make a pass through . When I was skinning the deer , I found the bullet lodged into the far side of the skin and it was separated from the jacket but still intact. The two pieces fell apart upon removing them . That was a high lung shot just behind the shoulder . The deer made it about 50 yards before it fell over . I can’t say if I’ve ever had any jacket separation issues with Nosler Partitions ( my GoTo round for most hunting applications ) or with the Hornady Interlocks because they always pass through . The Hornady SST , however will definitely come apart, rapid expansion bullets typically do if you hit anything other than soft tissue.
9 months ago | 0
I’ve been involved in crop deprivation prevention spanning a decade in calibers from, 6.5-284, 7rum, 7wsm, 25-06 ai, 28 Nosler and 300rum. I’ve seen literally 300+ deer fall to berger bullets exclusively in this scenario. Not a single deer has been lost from 300-900 yards. 95% have died within 6 feet of the impact area occasionally one runs a short distance. Zero Berger bullet failures from 115 .257 vlds up to 210 .308s. Hard to argue with this level of terminal performance.
9 months ago | 1
Hornady Black 250gr for 450 Bushmaster. The bullets appear to fragment upon impact from 0 to 150 yards. While animals are recovered, the damage to meat is severe. The entrance has often looked like the exit hole a 300WM core Lokt creates.
9 months ago | 2
Hey Ron, been shooting mainly 25-06 for white tails and occasionally 22-250. 25-06 with primarily Winchester’s old 120 grain PEP. I haven’t had what I would call a failure, but I have had many instances with no exit hole. I have 6-8 in an old red and silver super X box that I have decided to retire as a keep sake, and this year went to American Whitetail 117. No results yet! If I don’t see better penetration, I may go to a Barnes 100. 22-250 I use 60 grain federal premium partitions and 50 grain Barnes TSX. I have had nothing but superb results with both of those loads on whitetail. Most of the time with complete pass throughs. It is one of my favorite rifles to deer hunt with!
9 months ago | 1
Firstly, we all have our preferred shot. That said, if what you are using work's, don't fix it if it ain't broke. With that said I have taken whitetail in Kentucky with a .243 and 100gr cup n core bullet out to 425 yard's, (farthest, not a normal shot usuallyinside 400). My preferred shot, (broadside shoulder crease) one step and down. There are different bullet types for a reason. Pick the one you need, make sure it is accurate in your weapon, practice in the environment and at the distance you expect and go have fun filling your tag!
9 months ago | 1
I’ve personally had good success with cup and core bullets for mule deer and elk. Ive taken elk at 658 yards with the 212 hornady eldx and mule deer at 551 yards using the 180 Berger vld hunters both were one shot kills.
9 months ago | 5
I use the Berger in 6.5x55. Never let me down on roe deer or red deere. I only go for high loung shot behind the shoulder. Tracking distances vary from 0 to 150 meters.
9 months ago | 3
I've never had one fail , when I did my part and hit the vitals. Same goes for all other designs too.
9 months ago | 0
Use Berger classic hunter 168 gr 300 win mag . Shoot between 10 and 20 fallow and the acasional Sambar they are devastating ! Switched from mono because the deer too often run long distances after being hit .
8 months ago | 0
Hi Ron I have had very good results using 170 grn power points ammo in my winchester 94 3030. In fact I took 2 bull moose in Alaska with this load. 1 shot each. The range was about 130 yards. And the bullet went through the moose .
9 months ago | 2
I've shot Whitetail with Berger VLD hunting bullets from the .308 and .270 WSM. The deer if they're not dead before they hit the ground, they act drunk and are dead in a few seconds. I've never had a bullet "fail", but they are very destructive. I now stick with Barnes TSX and TTSX monolithic. Less damage, but a few yards further walk.
9 months ago | 5
@westvirginiafishingdudeout7841
My dad has always used fedral premiums that use the serria game kings sbt and they work he uses a Remington cdl in 30-06 and it hold sub .5 groups at 100 off the bench and they mushroom amazingly can’t buy federals loaded In them anymore but he stock pile 6 boxes he shoots 165 grain and I shoot 180 grain so sadly I can’t use them but I’ve found Winchester makes a bsp that is very similar and preform similar I shoot a 1965 700 with the whenchesters I get .5 groups at 100
9 months ago | 0
Using Hornady interlock in 6.5 creed, I had bullets grenade unlike anything I have ever seen. The results where dead animals, but meat loss was unacceptable and animals all ran 75 to 100yds. I have since switched to all copper bullets in the same rifle and have experienced 75%DRT, with good wounding and very low meat loss. I would not be confident in larger game with cup core performance.
9 months ago | 0
Me n buddy both used sst’s out in mt this year. I was kind of nervous because of what I read online. 3 dead deer later and I will say I was impressed. Shot my biggest buck ever bout 150 yards. Ran maybe 15-20 yards n dropped.
9 months ago | 2
Hi Ron, my wife and I killed three animals this year with 156 Grain Berger EOLS in 6.5 PRC The first one was a 250 pound merino ram in Texas, the bullet used a lot of energy penetrating the ram’s wool and then penetrated and held together completely through his whole body. Next we both killed whitetail does, broadside behind the shoulder shots. The bullet went into the body cavity and blew into smithereens. The does both dropped on the spot and didn’t twitch. All in all, I see the Berger in 6.5prc being toted as a long range elk cartridge on forums very commonly now. After what I’ve seen at close range, I can say that perhaps it will perform that far out, but I can’t imagine passing the bull of a lifetime at 100 yards because I’m not confident in my bullet doing its job.
9 months ago | 1
For moose I took down like 15. And I saw many moose go down with other hunters. I used every caliber possible. We use boats cause we’re in the boreal forest in far north Ontario. 30-06 or 308 is my go to round for inside 100 yards. 300 win mag is for 300 yards and beyond. We use snowmobiles sometimes too. For ambush long range moose hunts. I used 300 win mag inside 100 yards before. It just blew up the neck, meat and bone.
9 months ago | 0
Ron Spomer Outdoors
When we sliced this Berger bullet in half, one half of the lead core fell out. This illustrates the basic cup-and-core bullet. The jacket material, usually gilding metal of 95% copper, 5% zinc, starts as a flat disc and is "drawn" into a long tube. A rod of lead is inserted into this tube, and then the unit is swaged to final shape. Sometimes the lead pokes above the end of the gilding metal, sometimes it's flush, sometimes it sits well below, making a hollow point. Often a plastic tip is added. But in all cases the two metals are never fused, neither mechanically nor molecularly nor glued. This is why the two pieces are infamous for separating on impact or shortly thereafter. In some cases this can lead to increased hemorrhaging, in others to poor penetration. The higher the impact energy, the more likely the bullet will break apart. Cup-core bullets over the decades have proven quite effective on "softer" targets like deer or elk/moose broadside chest hits at lower impact velocities. Deadly in 30-30, 35 Remington, 45-70 inside of 100 yards; 30-08, 270 Win., 30-06 and similar at, say, 200 to 400 yards; magnums like 300 WM, 7mm RM at 300 yards to 500 yards. No hard and fast rules and distances, but this gives you a rough idea of what to expect. Many extreme range shooters claim cup-cores like Bergers are devastating due to tumbling and/or breakup beyond 500 yards. Have you ever had a cup-core bullet fail to reach the vitals? What was the shot placement/angle and distance to target?
9 months ago | [YT] | 922