I’d really love some background on the lead up to the split. It seems from what has been told me and what I’ve read online that it was mostly against LGBTQ+ ordination, but now it seems like women’s ordination is in peril, too.
4 weeks ago | 1
Not much to add but my Episcopalian priest back home once privately referred to the ACNA as the “Angricans” and that cracked me up. He seemed genuinely heartbroken about the schism.
4 weeks ago | 2
I don’t really doubt that TEC was ferocious to splitting parishes tbh I say as an Episcopalian If that’s wrong lmk
4 weeks ago | 2
I’m curious about what actually happened in the lead up to the schism. I heard that there was supposed to be a second meeting between Iker, Duncan, and Jefferts Schori that Iker and Duncan bailed on. I then heard from another friend that Jefferts Schori bailed on that second meeting (maybe first). What actually happened? I’m also super curious as to why the House of Bishops didn’t put forward their own rubric for alternative pastoral oversight after rejecting the Archbishop of Canterbury’s (and why the ACNA folks themselves, anticipating opposition to surrendering any control of TEC to foreign actors, didn’t have a US-only alternative lined up). I’d love it if the truth of what actually happened leading up to and during the schism could be explored and laid bare and agreed upon by both sides. I think that’s how we move toward healing. I’m also curious if the ACNA folks might’ve accepted fully independent alternative pastoral oversight, appointed by the presiding bishop, and confirmed by the House of Bishops. In other words, what would’ve been a US-based solution that they actually would’ve accepted?
4 weeks ago | 2
I had also heard that it’s very forgot to be a theologically conservative Episcopalian but since I’ve experienced this myself and seen it from dear friends I don’t think that’s not true I say this as an inclusively orthodox type I recall being told on more than one occasion in a big spat on Bluesky I should be in the ACNA not TEC Despite my queerness So it seems really really bad to me
4 weeks ago (edited) | 5
It's a myth that conservatives were "forced out" of the Episcopal church (I say this as a conservative). The conservatives are just schismatics.
4 weeks ago | 3
Young Anlican has a video explaining why he is not in the Episcopal Church here: youtube.com/watch?v=qk57IRzXeC8&list=PLNb3zvU8KFlFB0xQ6VvuTBR-f0t0d-ldN&index=26&pp=iAQB . If I remmember right, his main argument is that women cannot be bishops, and therefore cannot pass down apostolic succession to anyone, even if they are a man, and that there is too long of a history of women's ordination the TEC, so there have been too many female bishops to be sure about the validity a specific church's sacraments. Hope this helps! I've been hoping for a while that an Episcopalian would respond to the ACNA defenders and I am very excited to see someone doing it.
4 weeks ago | 1
Doctrinal differences/emphasis between (1) TEC and (2) ACNA 1. Quoting the Britannica online article 'Thirty-nine Articles/Church of England': Thirty-nine Articles, the doctrinal statement of the Church of England. With the Book of Common Prayer, they present the liturgy and doctrine of that church. The Thirty-nine Articles developed from the Forty-two Articles, written by Archbishop Thomas Cranmer in 1553 “for the avoiding of controversy in opinions.” ... In 1563 the Canterbury Convocation (the periodic assembly of clergy of the province of Canterbury) drastically revised the Forty-two Articles, and additional changes were made at Elizabeth’s request. A final revision by convocation in 1571 produced the Thirty-nine Articles, which were approved by both convocation and Parliament, though Elizabeth had wanted to issue them under her own authority. Only the clergy had to subscribe to them. The status of the Thirty-nine Articles varies in the several churches of the Anglican Communion. Since 1865 Church of England clergy have had to declare only that the doctrine in the articles is “agreeable to the Word of God.” IN THE EPISCOPAL CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES, WHERE THE ARTICLES WERE REVISED IN 1801 TO REMOVE REFERENCES TO ROYAL SUPREMACY, NEITHER CLERGY NOR LAITY IS REQUIRED FORMALLY TO SUBSCRIBE TO THEM. IN 1977 THE ARTICLES WERE RELEGATED TO AN APPENDIX IN THE REVISED PRAYER BOOK. [britannica com / topic / Thirty-nine-Articles] 2. Quoting the ACNA webpage What Is Anglicanism?/Beliefs/FAQs: "(7.) We receive the Thirty-Nine Articles of Religion of 1571, taken in their literal and grammatical sense, as expressing the Anglican response to certain doctrinal issues controverted at that time, and as expressing the fundamental principles of authentic Anglican belief." [anglican church net / about / #1582572862001-7775f166-5569]
4 weeks ago | 1
Maybe it’s time to move on? It seems like this horse is dead and it’s time to accept the split and go forward wherever you landed. We aren’t going back,
3 weeks ago | 0
Well a question I have, as an Episcopalian, but one of a relatively more traditional bent is how are we to see moves like Canterbury or the use of graffiti at St. Thomas’s tomb? It speaks to a church desperate for the approval of the modern world rather than holding firm to apostolic tradition. Canterbury knew they were going to drive the global south to schism with the appointment and it seems like the loss of communion was less important than scoring progressive social clout.
4 weeks ago | 2
Outsider looking in here: My issue is that Episcopalianism on the ground bears little resemblance to online Episcopalianism. Every church near me is basically a dying boomer social club except for the one healthy parish in the wealthiest suburb in the city which is not a place a working class person like me would feel welcome. “Country club” vibes. Inclusive orthodoxy seems like a meme for seminarians and the terminally online not an actual practice. I don’t know where all these young queer theology nerds I see online are, but it certainly isn’t at the local Churches in my area. In fact you won’t find any young working class people at the local parishes. If real life Episcopalianism was anything like the Episcopalian subbreddit, I probably would have joined already. As it stands, I find myself drawn to more conservative traditions that have actual demographic diversity and people who take their faith seriously. People need to realize that there are ways that the ACNA is doing better culturally that have nothing to do with the issues of gender and sexuality.
4 weeks ago | 2
I’m interested in this too. I often hear TEC targets theological conservatives but I’m not convinced this is the case
4 weeks ago | 2
The only story I've heard was that reactionary bishops voted to elect Schori in order to force a split and the creation of a new communion. I have no idea how true that is. This all gets very difficult to talk about when we use the word "conservative'. My priest is gay and married, but we have some parishioners who call him conservative because he has orthodox Christian beliefs. However, this same parish has many Republican voters, including Trump voters. It's also difficult to have find common cause with some conservatives in the Church. I think of George Conger who I have never heard say a positive word about the Episcopal Church, in which he is a priest. Or Gerald Bray, whose excellent book on Anglicanism I still recommend, but have to advise people to ignore the last chapter. I think the biggest myth I encounter is that Episcopalians are all atheists or pagans, or just a social justice club. It's understandable; many times I have seen and heard politically liberal/left Episcopalians call for the expulsion of the politically conservative/right over the actions of politicians, but rarely have I heard the call to expel the theologically unorthodox from our ranks.
4 weeks ago | 3
Hello, I recommend maybe contacting Redeemed Zoomer for more on this issue as he is against the ACNA decision from schisming from the TEC, and sees them as schismatic, he might know very well their arguments that they used to valid their schism. He also might know other Episcopalians that know more in depth on this issue.
4 weeks ago | 1
All Things Necessary
I'm looking for some audience input on an episode regarding common takes/stories/myths when it comes to the Episcopal Church and the formation of the Anglican Church in North America. In particular, I am hoping to address the degree to which any priest or bishop was forced out.
What are claims you've heard that you want addressed?
Or perhaps more generally, what are claims you've heard made about or against the Episcopal Church when it comes to "conservative" priests and bishops since the ACNA split that you'd like more clarity about?
4 weeks ago | [YT] | 13